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The Un-Indians

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yuki
Red
Omkar
7 posters

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1The Un-Indians Empty The Un-Indians Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:42 pm

Omkar

Omkar
Active Member
Active Member

The Un-Indians

India is my (reluctant) country. I love my country (much less than I love
western ones) and I am proud of its rich and varied heritage (but just not
enough that) I shall always strive to be worthy of it. I shall give my parents,
teachers and all elders respect and treat everyone with courtesy (if they all
speak in English). To my country and my people, I pledge my devotion (but I might
as well fly away if I get better prospects abroad). In their well being and
prosperity alone lies my happiness (…not).


That’s the Gen Next’s pledge. And therein lies the essence of
this article. We are Indians just for the namesake. In reality, we are on the
verge of becoming Un-Indians.


The problem with us Indians is that mostly, we are a bunch
of foolish wannabes and hypocrites. And if not wannabes, we are ones with just
one track mind. Fit in a particular stuff inside our mind and bang, we start aping
it many-a-time mindlessly. Another problem- we are obsessed with the west.


Okay, I am no Shri Ram Sene or Shiv Sena activist. All I am saying is we have
this mentality of wanting to forget our culture, our own good points and ape
the firangs. Why? Because that's what is supposed to be 'cool'. "English
is in man." We take pride in talking English, walking English at
the cost of forgetting our own languages, our own culture.


Let me start bit by bit.

Childhood:
It starts with the parents. Some are from not so prosperous background. They
want their kids to learn English because “That's how the world works, beta. You know English, you can do
anything. You can blend with the "high society" people and be
respected.” Why, are our Indian languages inferior? And how exactly do you
define high society? Ones who go to pubs, blow their father's money on smokes n
drinks, sleep with girls don't remember their face next dawn? Others, who are
from the rich families, for them, English is the way of life. They'll talk to
their kids in English all the time, just to show 'we compose the high society
people'.

School days:

Mostly, all are enrolled in English medium. No objection
with that. They make you talk English in class. No problems there either. But
what's with you wanting us to speak English in corridors, in lunch breaks,
while we board our buses and punishing
if found talking in regional languages? Don't you think that it might stifle
the expression of some not-so-fluent-in-English students? Its not that every
student coming out of such schools goes on to become a Stephen King. We do this
at the cost of Indian languages and then, we celebrate this 'Hindi Day' in our
own country.

Interaction with friends:

In the peer group, an English song listening, an ardent
Hollywood watcher gets looked up to.
"Hey have you seen the recent SRK..."
"You watch SRK? Are you retarded? Where does he stand before the legends
of Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt."
Firstly, you wannabe, these are not legends. Secondly, SRK is as great as any
of these. Perhaps, even better. I don't think Tom n Brad can dance around
trees.
Dr. Jean Folkerts, professor of honors and of media and public affairs at
George Washington University, writes in his book The Media In Your Life-
"The Indian film industry is known to produce cheap, low quality films.
However, recently, an Indian filmmaker decided to compete with Hollywood in
production quality. Devdas cost $11 million."
What right do these people have of inciting us and stripping Indian film
industry naked? Low budget is equivalent to low quality? Ironically, this
person is a well renowned Professor.

Music:

Again you see conversations of Linkin Park, Green Day and Akon abound. I
remember a conversation that my friend had with another wannabe.
My friend (MF): Hey, what songs do you listen to?
Wannabe Friend (WF): Ah, mostly English.
MF (interested): Oh yeah? Which ones?
WF: Hmm. You know Celine Dion?
MF: Uh, ya, duh.
WF: My heart will go on. That one.
This was year 2008.
Do you not see? MF is an ardent English listener. That's his taste, so no
qualms about that. But just so that he can 'match to MF's 'standards', the WF
made a complete fool of himself. Why people, why do you have to do that? Why be
embarrassed if you don’t listen to English? Is it a crime?

Apparel:

Ask a random person to dish out some of his dream brand
names. High probability is he’ll churn out Adidas, Reebok, Levi’s as his dream
list. Ask him name of an Indian brand, more often than not, he’ll be clueless.
Tell him about Tantra tees and he’ll start wondering when this brand came into
existence.

Now, 'Fashion @ Big Bazaar' is quite
famous thanks to its smart marketing. What’s more, it’s Indian too. Quality
wise, I haven't had a reason to complain and price-wise I have had every reason
to rejoice. But no, the brand suckers wanna hit you there too. "Big
bazaar? Dude, that's for beggars." Just because I mind spending 2000 bucks
on a shirt which I can more fruitfully spend on, well, even fruits, I become a
cheapo? Adidas and Nike come to India, demand prices that would make your
eyebrows touch your hairline and we are willing to pay. Tell you what, its not
always good quality. I recently bought a red Adidas tee and even after washing
thrice, it’s still reddening the wash-water.


Literature:
Another illustration using a conversation I had with a friend:
Me: Why don't you read any Indian authors?
Him: WTF men? What good do you think can come out of those morons? What can
they write about? Corruption, poverty, how India sucks, that's it na?
A sigh at the ignorance. Ever heard of R K Narayan, Ruskin Bond, Arundhati Roy?
Me: Let me start the dissuading process. Take for instance the pop literature,
say, Chetan Bhagat.

Him: No, thank you. His’ is pulp fiction. No standards at
all, that guy has. I’ve seen the film Hello.

Me: Oh no, the movie sucks…

Him: And so does Bhagat.

Turned out, he hasn't read Bhagat's best and the only best-
Five Point Someone. Now anyone who likes Dil Chahta Hai loves FPS too. In fact,
the book is likened to FPS.
Turned out, this guy loved Dil Chahta Hai!

You see, there are 2 kinds of people in such contexts. I’ll go back to the
movies:
1. People who find West cool but know they are not the West. This is the earlier
stage, the most curable one but the most irritating too. They'll pretend they
are omniscient on their knowledge and boast of knowing English movies. They'll
want to hate Indian movies or maybe they’ll want to make a show of it.

2. Morons who stick themselves just to the West whether movies.
These people already hate Indian stuff. And
why? "Because all Bollywood has is running around trees." I say, show
me one movie which had such scene in last 5 years. And I mean good movies only
because you apparently respect Hollywood because of its content. But Hollywood
has its share of tripe too. It’s just that they never see the Indian sun.

Music:

A wannabe’s opinion- "Indian songs are all mushy and
romantic shit." Oh ya? Avril is a big stud girl, isn't she? And what about
The Fray, Pussycat Dolls, Snow Patrol…I can go on and on.

Next whine on the Indian media. Let’s take a look at a youth channel. Take MTV.
What do you find? It has crossed Hinglish. Its now Henglish. Why the change? Coz
'Henglish' has 1 letters standing for Hindi. That's the % of Hindi they use on
their shows. I might be exaggerating but take an excerpt from the show Rock On.
VJ: So guys, are you ready? Chalo then, lets begin.
That is how goes Hindi in such shows, complete with an accent. What's sad is on
this show, genuine musicians from all over the country are featured. Some are
bumpkins but they are treated to firang VJ.

A disclaimer here. I am not at all averse to English or western culture.
Biggest example- this article is in English. A chunk of my own conversation is
in English. I like English music and movies. Hollywood has plenty of
originality and you have to give them for that. It has plenty of its merits. My
problem- aping it without applying mind, maligning Indians and Indian culture
just because it doesn't consist a pop culture, how does that make sense? You
are in fact deriding your own value. Wake up, people. Its high time.


Signing off, another excerpt from a conversation I can't
ever forget.
MF: Maharashtrians are bloody retarded bumpkins, aren't they?
Me: Dude, you too are a Maharashtrain.
MF: I know, I know. But still...



Last edited by omkardaone on Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:07 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Had to improvise it for the college magazine. Besides, the earlier post was quite erronous.)

http://creativelyfertile.blogspot.com/

2The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:07 am

Red

Red
Complete Douchebag!
Complete Douchebag!


Wow. Nice thread dude.
Very true and I agree with you on lots of things.

Well, it's for a fact that Indians are suckers for foreign things. This dates back to the middle ages(late middle ages). As one of my really obese friends often tells me - When the englishman first landed here, the Indians thought to themselves "Look! A white dude! Let's make him king!"
Surely he knows nothing about Indian history and one must never forget the fact that he is after all very fat. But the hidden truth in his words are unmistakably clear. Even though that was not how India was conquered, it pretty much worked on the same lines. WE ARE SUCKERS FOR FOREIGN THINGS!
I mean who wears an Indian brand like Tantra or Line Maro shirts (which IMHO are very kickass and to the best of my knowledge very INDIAN) whereas the queue at the Nike and Adidas outlet are HUGE!
I for one have very minimum branded apparel not by choice but by fate and circumstances. I wouldn't mind getting branded clothes more often but I like simple t-shirts and formals. And I'm happy with what I have. END.
I've heard people say that MAJOR brands produce clothes in India and Bangladesh due to the easy availability of cheap labor and they sell them back in these countries (ie, us). Smart eh?

And about MTV; I hate that sh!t. I do. I started hating it the day the conformist bastards at the frikkin channel decided to put Fully Faltoo OFF THE AIR (actually I quit much before that) and also after they decided to go all DESI SONGS and no ANGREZI SONGS. Pissed me off. They shouldn't have done that!
MTV IS AS AMERICAN AS THE BALD "FRIKKIN" EAGLE! SO STOP PRETENDING YOU FVCKHEADS!

But then there are places where I don't quite agree with you.
Like the english in school thing. Well, they are taking it a bit too far i agree on that but it's for our own good. You see, India with it's VAST multitude of cultures and languages, in spite of being united as one has forgotten to unite the people with a single language of communication. I know, I know, we have Hindi but I'm a MALLU and I live in the south and people here are SUPER IGNORANT of the ways of the north. The language(hindi) being of one of the things we fail to understand and master. Hence, communication barrier.
You see, we have NO language that binds us as people of a nation and for that and for more, the official language is..... English. But it is kinda lame of the schools to PUNISH the students for speaking regional languages.
VERY UNCOOL!

And lastly, about the movies. It's wrong to generalize that Indian movies are crap and of low standard. It's just wrong! Sure we have made crappy movies and on behalf of every indian, I APOLOGIZE WORLD, FOR LOVESTORY2050! It was just not supposed to exist! SORRY WORLD! OUR BAD!
We have ripped foreign movies, music and ideas. We have stolen them and put copyrights on them and this was so common at a point of time that the people have developed an opinion that all indian movies/songs/etc are either rip-offs or worth less that sh!t. People, the times are slowly changing. Slowly but surely. People like SRK has realized that if he doesn't start acting, he'll soon be outta money coz there's a new wave of actors out there who are willing to "act properly" for the money they are getting paid for. I don't know Sallu-Bhai's attitude on all this coz ALL OF the "Wanted" songs are crap. Besides, it's a remake of a Tamil Movie. i know SRK is gonna act proper from now on because he did so (or at least tried to) in Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi.
And with a new breed of movie makers like that dude who made "Aamir" and the other dude who OMKAR just idolizes,.... i think indian movies are going through a change for the better. but the public opinion that has stuck for so long WILL take some time to change and there's nobody you can blame for that. in fact i think they probably deserve it.

Oh and people who know me personally (ie over chat, phone or otherwise) must note that I once had an accent not because I felt the "firangs"(if I may) were superior but that I believed in the great saying: "When you speak hindi, talk like an Indian. When you speak english, talk like a white guy!"(I made that! And I try to follow it too!) I am not ruling out entirely the possibility that ZODIAC(and ex-member here at this forum) was one reason why I tried hard to get an accent in the first place. And the fact that my accent is gone now is because of the people I sit with at college. No complaints.

Reactions to your post/Notes about My own post :
1. I don't know who Erich Segal is! Author? Sorry, I don't ever read much at all sometimes mostly not definitely maybe never seen a book EVAR.
2. From point#1 it must not be a surprise that I haven't read Five Point Someone (FPS = CounterStrike and that's not a book LOL)
3. I haven't seen Dil Chahta Hai... yet. One of my greatest regrets. Maybe that's why I'm not into Aamir Khan so much. Well, I haven't see Taare Zameen Par either.
4. I hate Celiene Dion. She's Canadian.
5. I hate Avril too. Guess what, she's Canadian too!
6. I'm not against Canada or Canadians. I needed a reason to hate some people and somehow most of them turned out to be Canadian. In fact I love CANADA for the fact that THERE'Z NO CANADA LIKE FRENCH CANADA, ITZ DA BEST CANADA IN DA WORLD!
7. I'm not racist. I love all people!... except maybe the Arabs and the Chinese and sharks. I'm not kidding.
8. I have used a lot of bracket/parentheses here. And I enjoyed every single one of them!

Final words:
Aping the west is OK! but do it in moderation and NEVER EVAR forget your roots.
If you hate your country, get outta here. Don't try to make it the pale shadow of another.

3The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:27 pm

Omkar

Omkar
Active Member
Active Member

RedWOLF wrote:


I mean who wears an Indian brand like Tantra or Line Maro shirts (which IMHO are very kickass and to the best of my knowledge very INDIAN)

that reminds me of 'Fashion @ Big Bazaar' thing. that is indian too. quality wise, i haven't had a reason to complain(maybe that's because i am REALLY choosy) and price-wise i have every reason to rejoice. but no, the brand suckers wanna hit you there too. "Big bazaar? dude, that's for beggars." WTF? just coz i mind spending 2000 bucks on a shirt which i can more fruitfully spend on, well, fruits(hey, i love them! all of them!) i become a cheapo? adidas and nike come to india, demand prices that would make your eyebrows touch your hairline and we are willing to pay. tell you what, its not always good quality. i recently bought a red Adidas tee and even after washing thrice, its still reddening the wash-water.



RedWOLF wrote: about MTV; I hate that sh!t. I do. I started hating it the day the conformist bastards at the frikkin channel decided to put Fully Faltoo OFF THE AIR (actually I quit much before that) and also after they decided to go all DESI SONGS and no ANGREZI SONGS. Pissed me off. They shouldn't have done that!
i really can't see what's wrong with that. you got Vh1 for English, haven't you? ok hindi songs are mostly ridiculous but honestly speaking, i feel English songs' videos mostly suck balls. i would prefer hindi. seriously. And about Fully Faltoo, all i remember two of the spoof movies Ghoom(funny in parts) n something else. would have liked if it had continued.

RedWOLF wrote: And with a new breed of movie makers like that dude who made "Aamir" and the other dude who OMKAR just idolizes,.... i think indian movies are going through a change for the better.
that would be Vishal Bharadwaj. oh wait, there's Anurag Kashyap too. and lately i have liking Imtiaz Ali too.

RedWOLF wrote: then there are places where I don't quite agree with you.
Like the english in school thing. Well, they are taking it a bit too far i agree on that but it's for our own good. You see, India with it's VAST multitude of cultures and languages, in spite of being united as one has forgotten to unite the people with a single language of communication. I know, I know, we have Hindi but I'm a MALLU and I live in the south and people here are SUPER IGNORANT of the ways of the north. The language(hindi) being of one of the things we fail to understand and master. Hence, communication barrier.
You see, we have NO language that binds us as people of a nation and for that and for more, the official language is..... English.

i agree. south is ignorant of hindi. don't get me wrong, i don't mean any offense but let me just bluntly state most people's perception of south here(that is, central n north india).
people think South is basically egoistic. they don't WANT to learn hindi. they feel its an encroachment on their languages. they are willing to embrace English though. strangely they got no problems with that. perhaps its because during the British times, they had been most successful in sucking up to the Southies. it can be still traced by the fact that most of the Christians there are converts. so the british left, but left back their legacy- English.
now you say Hindi is one thing Southies fail to master or understand. explain me this- its a fact that India is basically not an English country. for people to learn English, they have to go to schools which is again not an easy task for underprivileged classes. now, most India is underprivileged. How is a south Indian underprivileded guy supposed to learn English WITHOUT going to school? on the other hand, its much easier for him to learn Hindi because most of India already knows hindi. Hindi media's reach is much broader than English's(how many radio stations in not-so-urban areas play English songs?) i bet a common south Indian man definitely knows who Madhuri Dixit is but a question mark will rise if you ask him about Angelina Jolie. that proves the reach of Hindi films. then, there are several Hindi news channels. in places that don't have cable, you have National TV that's Hindi too! now tell me, which will be a better and practical unification medium- Hindi or English?
besides, HINDI IS THE GODDAMN NATION LANGUAGE PEOPLE!



RedWOLF wrote: to your post/Notes about My own post :
1. I don't know who Erich Segal is! Author? Sorry, I don't ever read much at all sometimes mostly not definitely maybe never seen a book EVAR.
yup, he's an author. A literary God for me- which explains me mentioning him Smile

RedWOLF wrote:
Final words:
Aping the west is OK!
'Aping' is a wrong word man. because it essentially means mindlessness. i would rather put it as 'Learn the merits'.
RedWOLF wrote: but do it in moderation and NEVER EVAR forget your roots.
If you hate your country, get outta here. Don't try to make it the pale shadow of another.
Hear Hear! *Applause* That's my point!

http://creativelyfertile.blogspot.com/

4The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:04 pm

yuki

yuki
Active Member
Active Member

o.o i agree with both of u guys.. 'specially on the point that we must never forget our roots..but about the language, english is the language common to people all over the world so i think it'll be unwise not to learn it. and u're quite right 'bout the songs -.- its not just indians, all asians just 'convert' to english music cos its 'cool' i'm not sayin that english music is bad, i like em too and i like asian music too ( malayalam, hindi,tamil, japanese.. o.o) movies...i'm not too sure..people say that many indian movies' theme are copied from western movies. Books - both english and indian r good i guess.

....even though i live in uk, my lifestyle hasnt changed much from that in india but i aint a hypocrite so i'll honestly say that i think peopl make more money in western countries =.= plus the universities r good too.

so yeah . i think that whereever we live, we must never forget our culture.

(p.s i'm bad at writing long stuff =.=)

@red : i hav a tantra t-shirt o.o ...

5The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:57 pm

Arr0wHeaD

Arr0wHeaD
Forum Founder
Forum Founder

omkardaone wrote:
RedWOLF wrote: about MTV; I hate that sh!t. I do. I started hating it the day the conformist bastards at the frikkin channel decided to put Fully Faltoo OFF THE AIR (actually I quit much before that) and also after they decided to go all DESI SONGS and no ANGREZI SONGS. Pissed me off. They shouldn't have done that!
i really can't see what's wrong with that. you got Vh1 for English, haven't you? ok hindi songs are mostly ridiculous but honestly speaking, i feel English songs' videos mostly suck balls.
!

MTV became hindi a loong time ago. Way before Vh1 came on the scene.
At one point, the only time when English songs were played was 1 a.m.

MTV is REALLY not a great example to illustrate your point. They're doing the opposite. It's an American channel trying to suck up to Indian Viewers.




people think South is basically egoistic. they don't WANT to learn hindi. they feel its an encroachment on their languages. they are willing to embrace English though. strangely they got no problems with that. perhaps its because during the British times, they had been most successful in sucking up to the Southies. it can be still traced by the fact that most of the Christians there are converts. so the british left, but left back their legacy- English.
Sooo many things wrong here. Where do I begin?
Firstly, ALL Christians in India, and in the rest of the world, for that matter, converted to Christianity. If not
them personally, their ancestors have. Even the main man Jesus Christ was initially a follower of Judaism.

I'm not sure what you want to illustrate here. Christians came here LONG before the British. St. Thomas came here (Around AD 52). And since he couldn't fly in, he arrived by ship, and happened to land in the south, because it's the place with the sea, you see? And the T man spread the religion to the peeps, and since they didn't have twitter back then he had to work on one to one interaction.

If he came by land, and reached, sayy, Gujarat first, than we would probably have more Christians there.
THATS how it works. The Brits had nothing to do with it.

Now Just for Future Reference, I think it's important for you to understand that religion is a touchy subject, You never know what you might say that might offend people. I'm pretty cool and open to discussion, I'd say Red is too. Not everyone is, though. So don't talk about religion through hearsay.
------------------------------------------------------------
Now the Important Part. I hope you realize that India does not have a 'NATIONAL LANGUAGE'.
There is no such thing defined in the constitution.

Neither the Constitution of India nor Indian law specifies a National language. Article 343 of the constitution specifies that the official language of the Union shall be Hindi in Devanagari script. Article 354 specifies that the legislature of a State may by law adopt any one or more of the languages in use in the State or Hindi as the Language or Languages to be used for all or any of the official purposes of that State. Section 8 of The Official Languages Act of 1963 (as amended in 1967) empowers the Union Government to make rules regarding the languages which may be used for the official purposes of the Union, for transaction of business in Parliament, and for communication between the Union Government and the states. Section 3 of G.S.R. 1053, titled "Rules, 1976 (As Amended, 1987)" specifies that communications from a Central (Union) Government office to a State or a Union Territory in shall, save in exceptional cases (Region "A") or shall ordinarily (Region "B"), be in Hindi, and if any communication is issued to any of them in English it shall be accompanied by a Hindi translation thereof.

What that means, in short, is that Hindi is the language of the Union Government and the High Court. So it's a language that comes in handy if you're in politics or in trouble. (The two often go hand in hand). That makes sense, because in Delhi (where the Union Government is), people speak Hindi. And not the 'Bombay Flava' Hindi that we in Mumbai Speak, the real stuff. With the '-jis' and the 'shirmans' thrown in. The list of State languages are HERE

You therefore have no more need to learn Hindi than you have to learn Mizo. Nothing Patriotic about it. You can say it's the 'Rashtrbhasha' if you feel like it, but legally, it's not. And noone has the right to force it on anyone.

It is only because Hindi is a USEFUL language (see above, Courts and Politics) that we learn it.
Which brings me to English. Whose utility is undisputed.
We learn languages that come in Handy, thus Hindi should be encouraged. NOT because of some vague Patriotic slogan.

Another point- When People from the south travel north, they WILL make an effort to speak in Hindi. At least the broken variety with hand gestures to put the message across.

But when people from the north go south, they won't take the SLIGHTEST effort to learn the language. Popular perception is that Southern Languages are some 'Aandu Gundu Shit', and northies don't want to be within 10 feet of it.
And then you say Southies are Egoistic. Hell, why shouldn't the Tamil be the national language?Compared to Hindi, It's closer to Sanskrit, the root of all languages in the Subcontinent. Also, Historically speaking, Tamil was spoken by the Dravidian Natives of India, who were here first, basically.

And if the Common South Indian knows Amithabh, the North Indians know Rajni. But Saif Ali Khan, even today is 'Tiger Pataudi's' son according to my relatives. Or the Nerolac Paint guy.

DD METRO might be in Hindi, but it's only received in Delhi Mumbai and Bangalore. Other places get regional programming from the DD Bouquet of Channels.

Point is, if it wasn't for English, we'd be at each others throats every opportunity we get. Hell, that still happens, look at the whole 'Bihari-Marathi' Fights that happened. And don't Forget the Anti South Sentiment back in the 70's. If everyone reacted like this to the loss of jobs, There would be Genocide of Indians in The US and UK.

and why learn English? Why do people Ape the West?

Simple, dude.
MONEY.
The US is rich, they invest in popularizing their media in other countries. And dudes want to be rich (can you blame them?) and so they try and copy their lifestyles, hoping to someday be there themselves.

Now, if India was the richest and most powerful country in the world, people across the globe would learn Hindi, in a bid to be better equipped to work for the major players in the Economy. It's because it's Handy, not because it's the National Language (which it isn't).

Why do you think people are now learning Chinese? It's cause they're the fastest growing economy. And that means MONEY.
And THAT'S what makes the world go round.

P.S. I haven't done much editing so please don't point out spelling errors, if any...

https://amalganation.forumotion.net

6The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:57 am

Omkar

Omkar
Active Member
Active Member

I like your argument. You make sense(as usual) when you change the perspective altogether. But maybe you forgot what the main point was- people copy which to a certain extent is quite understandable, but in that process, they forget who they are, rather they WANT to forget who they are. What they don't realize is that even if you might stand out(and might get looked up to too) among Indians, you go anywhere else, you will be identified as Indian first. So why be a wannabe?

Arr0wHeaD wrote:

Now Just for Future Reference, I think it's important for you to understand that religion is a touchy subject, You never know what you might say that might offend people. I'm pretty cool and open to discussion, I'd say Red is too. Not everyone is, though. So don't talk about religion through hearsay.

There was a time when homosexuality was a touchy subject too. But what is the case now? We discuss it openly. Every once a week there comes an article on that in TOI. Every pair of best friends is nowadays called Dostana. A topic is never touchy dude, WE make it. And as long as we make our 'No offense' stance clear and hold a healthy discussion, I don't think anyone should have a problem.
------------------------------------------------------------
Arr0wHeaD wrote: Now the Important Part. I hope you realize that India does not have a 'NATIONAL LANGUAGE'.
There is no such thing defined in the constitution.

Neither the Constitution of India nor Indian law specifies a National language. Article 343 of the constitution specifies that the official language of the Union shall be Hindi in Devanagari script. Article 354 specifies that the legislature of a State may by law adopt any one or more of the languages in use in the State or Hindi as the Language or Languages to be used for all or any of the official purposes of that State. Section 8 of The Official Languages Act of 1963 (as amended in 1967) empowers the Union Government to make rules regarding the languages which may be used for the official purposes of the Union, for transaction of business in Parliament, and for communication between the Union Government and the states. Section 3 of G.S.R. 1053, titled "Rules, 1976 (As Amended, 1987)" specifies that communications from a Central (Union) Government office to a State or a Union Territory in shall, save in exceptional cases (Region "A") or shall ordinarily (Region "B"), be in Hindi, and if any communication is issued to any of them in English it shall be accompanied by a Hindi translation thereof.

What that means, in short, is that Hindi is the language of the Union Government and the High Court. So it's a language that comes in handy if you're in politics or in trouble. (The two often go hand in hand). That makes sense, because in Delhi (where the Union Government is), people speak Hindi. And not the 'Bombay Flava' Hindi that we in Mumbai Speak, the real stuff. With the '-jis' and the 'shirmans' thrown in. The list of State languages are HERE

You therefore have no more need to learn Hindi than you have to learn Mizo. Nothing Patriotic about it. You can say it's the 'Rashtrbhasha' if you feel like it, but legally, it's not. And noone has the right to force it on anyone.

Whoa! Quite some research there. A +1 for that.
You know what's the point of people learning Hindi? Its a much easier route of achieving national unity. And I would vouch for Tamil or Mallu or Marathi had its influence been so dominant in whole of the country. But no it isn't. And that's why the most feasible option is learn Hindi. I have already emphasized the role of media which can contribute to its faster spread.


Arr0wHeaD wrote: Which brings me to English. Whose utility is undisputed.
We learn languages that come in Handy, thus Hindi should be encouraged. NOT because of some vague Patriotic slogan.

Another point- When People from the south travel north, they WILL make an effort to speak in Hindi. At least the broken variety with hand gestures to put the message across.

But when people from the north go south, they won't take the SLIGHTEST effort to learn the language. Popular perception is that Southern Languages are some 'Aandu Gundu Shit', and northies don't want to be within 10 feet of it.

I would like to refute that. It all depends on various factors. Like if one is gonna stay there for years to come, he will obviously take efforts to learn. If one is there for some month long tour, "No, thank you," will come the reply. Besides what you say here is individually variable. You can't generalize because its not a fact. I don't think you have conducted any survey on it.

Arr0wHeaD wrote: And then you say Southies are Egoistic. Hell, why shouldn't the Tamil be the national language? Compared to Hindi, It's closer to Sanskrit, the root of all languages in the Subcontinent. Also, Historically speaking, Tamil was spoken by the Dravidian Natives of India, who were here first, basically.

You talk about Tamil? Hell, in that case even I argue that instead, Marathi should be the national language. It not only bears the root, there's also a resemblance to the Sanskrit letters.
And historically, this Aryans n Dravidians defining the north n south Indians respectively is all bull(refer TOI dated 25th Sept) A study was conducted by Harvard and indigenous researchers which scrapped this. It says that Dravidians came hundreds or thousands of years after the human settlements in these parts. Besides, there is no specific resource that points out who was the first.

Arr0wHeaD wrote: And if the Common South Indian knows Amithabh, the North Indians know Rajni. But Saif Ali Khan, even today is 'Tiger Pataudi's' son according to my relatives. Or the Nerolac Paint guy.
What exactly are you trying to prove by this? Putting that Saif statement aside(which I couldn't get the point of) an average North Indian knows Rajni by name not films. On the contrary, I bet Southies know Amitabh by his films. You might hear more chants of Amitabh's "Aaj mere paas gaadi hai, ghoda hai, bangla hai, tumhare paas kya hai?" from a Southie than you might hear a North Indian chanting Rajni's "Aande Gunde Punde."(is it? See, even I don't know!)

Arr0wHeaD wrote: DD METRO might be in Hindi, but it's only received in Delhi Mumbai and Bangalore. Other places get regional programming from the DD Bouquet of Channels.

No FREAKING chance. I was born in Amravati, a town in Maharashtra, and lived there for 6 years. I still remember watching Mowgli on DD Metro on Sundays and 7 pm news on DD National everyday. If in those days i.e. 1991-97 Metro was transmitted in backward(in those days) towns like Amravati, you say now its restricted to just 3 cities? And I refuse to believe DD National(Hindi) isn't all over India. WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY CALL IT 'NATIONAL' THEN?!

Arr0wHeaD wrote: Point is, if it wasn't for English, we'd be at each others throats every opportunity we get. Hell, that still happens, look at the whole 'Bihari-Marathi' Fights that happened. And don't Forget the Anti South Sentiment back in the 70's. If everyone reacted like this to the loss of jobs, There would be Genocide of Indians in The US and UK.

Bihari Marathi fights are more politically motivated than real resentment. There is some but lets not get into that. And you think English is a unifying factor there? Do you mean if I teach all Shiv-Sainiks and Taxi and Auto-drivers English the fights will cease?

Arr0wHeaD wrote: and why learn English? Why do people Ape the West?

Simple, dude.
MONEY.
The US is rich, they invest in popularizing their media in other countries. And dudes want to be rich (can you blame them?) and so they try and copy their lifestyles, hoping to someday be there themselves.

Now, if India was the richest and most powerful country in the world, people across the globe would learn Hindi, in a bid to be better equipped to work for the major players in the Economy. It's because it's Handy, not because it's the National Language (which it isn't).

Why do you think people are now learning Chinese? It's cause they're the fastest growing economy. And that means MONEY.
And THAT'S what makes the world go round.

Clap This is the best part of your argument. Point taken. Its sad but true. But guys, *voice hoarse from persistent shouting* for the nth time, be Indians first and then global citizens.

Arr0wHeaD wrote: P.S. I haven't done much editing so please don't point out spelling errors, if any...
Damn, you HAD to say that? I was sooo wanting to point out that its 'Shriman' and not 'Shirman' Razz

http://creativelyfertile.blogspot.com/

7The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:52 am

kyo

kyo
Active Member
Active Member

While I have nothing against Hindi, (I speak read and write it... albeit not as well as in English), I must say that English is the current Lingua Franca of the world. Just like how French used to be. Which is why I feel that learning English should be encouraged, but not while discouraging other languages.

Hindi/Indian media: I am a big fan... I often complain about crappy movies and say that I will never go watch a Hindi movie again... but there are always those few gems... perhaps a bit fewer than I would like... but thats what makes them even better. I have already mentioned that people watching English movies outside of the USA get a VERY skewed perspective. They don't release the crappy movies in India/Asia after all.... If Bollywood makes 3/5 (or 4/5) bad movies... I would say Hollywood is at least 2/5 as well....
For TV shows though... I dont think there are too many Hindi shows that have made an effort at redeeming themselves... but this is a problem of pure economics. The budgets for English TV shows are ALWAYS many times more than their Indian/Asian counterparts i.e. they can afford to be 'slick.' Then... after they recuperate their costs and turn a profit in their own countries... they become free to sell the rights of broadcast in Asia at throwaway prices... driving the 'native' producers out of business.... or forcing them to run even cheaper.... I recall some classic Hindi TV shows which I dont see anymore.... Malgudi Days, Dekh Bhai Dekh, Hum Paanch etc.
As for the ripoff complaint... I hate to say it.... but I can sort of understand why it happens.... pure business... if you see an idea that makes money... it makes sense to use it again right?

Consumer Goods: Lets face it, Indian companies are only just starting to deal with the competition, and while they did lose the first round... I have seen radical improvement in the recent past. Take the Tata Nano as an example. The world said it couldnt be done. Ratan Tata quietly kicked their collective rears with the success of the program. We have HCL producing high quality computers etc. As for those oh-so-cool 'branded' (<-- Wannabes colloquialism for anything NOT Indian) clothes? I have yet to see a single T-Shirt or Shirt in ALL my time here in the USA which was not made somewhere in Asia or South America.... well that is a bit of an exaggeration... but safely 95% were made in one of these countries: India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Maldives, China and Phillipenes. The funny thing is... while we are talking about 'Buy Indian' the Americans here are crying 'Buy American' and to them I say: People would if they could.. Example: My spanking new Dell Laptop, sure its a Dell... but its Made in China (arent they always?)

Patriotism: You know why Indians appear less patriotic? Its because they are forgetting all the things they have which they could/should be taking pride in. Our rich history, our contributions to mankind in the fields of Mathematics, medicine, and literature and a culture where...referencing Akshay Kumar from Namastey London... "A Catholic woman steps aside so that a Sikh can be sworn in as Prime Minister by a Muslim President in a country where more than 80% of the population is Hindu."
We have the worlds 3rd largest standing army, we have a goddamn space program which can put satellites into space at a fraction of the cost of the Europeans or Americans. We have the world's twelfth largest economy (I think) and the fourth largest in purchasing power (I know). Yes... we are that good... just that not enough people realize it... This is one of the reasons why people try to be more 'Western'/'Un-Indian.'

This is not to say that there are no problems.... there are many problems... but none of these can be solved overnight... its easy to bash the government and the country in general... but people forget that when they are not part of the solution... they become part of the problem.... why crib about illiteracy if youre not willing to teach someone? Why complain about corruption when you hand out bribes to the cop who pulled you over? Why complain about our dependence on the rest of the world for technology when youre not willing to learn and work in your own country...? Correct me if I am wrong... but globally, Indians comprise the 2nd largest pool of Doctors / Engineers / Scientists after China.

The problem is that we are a very fractured state... we are so diverse that its really hard to get along and see eye to eye all of the time... and this is why things move a little slow... people are more interested in short term local issues (human nature) rather than the big picture (the nation)... this is what bogs us down... and this is why people dont get enough opportunities to see / hear about the real greatness of the Country... despite its problems...

In summary the wannabes and the Un-Indians or whatever are aping/copying/whatever the west because...

1st: They are distancing themselves from the problems which they dont want to deal with...

2nd: They are embracing a culture which they think is superior (better media etc).... Cause it appears to be 'cooler'...

3rd: They want money... Americans appear to be very rich... but trust me... its just the exchange rate... if you factor in cost of living... I would say we are even stevens... we should actually be glad for the position we are in... we have a healthy middle class... unlike here.... where the top 1% richest people control like 50% of the wealth....

4th: Its Human Nature... it is merely human nature to be serve our self interest... I wont say selfishness... thats a dirty word... but self interest... we have self interest in making money, in being successful, in living in a better environment... cleanliness and whatnot...

BTW... to all those wannabes.... if you really want to ape the westeners... STOP littering your cities!! Stop handing out bribes!!! Say thank you and please (even if they are programmed to do that since childhood)!!

I for one prefer an Indian culture where a child will look after his/her parents in their old age rather than shipping them off to old folks homes, where the divorce rate (albeit its climbing) is <50% and where violence is not an everyday commonplace occurrence. I prefer a Tshirt with 'Om' on it or a Hindi catchphrase as opposed to a obscene hand sign / swear word... I prefer a glut of sappy love songs rather than songs glorifying violence, mindless sex and drug abuse...

Jai Hind!

8The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:07 am

kyo

kyo
Active Member
Active Member

Just BTW.... my favorite T-Shirt... I forget whether its Tantra or Nirvana....

Indian Railways... 100 years of bringing people closer... + cartoon of a Mumbai Local.... LolZ....

P.S. In case any wannabes drop by...

Thank you = Dhanyawad

Please = Kripaya

9The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:12 pm

Omkar

Omkar
Active Member
Active Member

I edited my first post. My teacher wanted an improvised version and I obviously had to submit an explicitness-free stuff for the college mag. Thought I might as well re-post it here. The major difference I've made- the Gen Next's version of the pledge we are made to recite everyday in the assembly. (Original pledge: Check out any Govt. approved text book's first few pages)

http://creativelyfertile.blogspot.com/

10The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:28 pm

Arr0wHeaD

Arr0wHeaD
Forum Founder
Forum Founder

Hmm? You used this for college?

Nice, Amalganation is ALSO a Study tool now...

https://amalganation.forumotion.net

11The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:25 pm

Ankita


Uprising Member
Uprising Member

Being Indian is always cool.
For instance, check out the recent page 3 news. They are decreasing shows of Avatar in America to increase shows of 3 idiots. But we tend to be a little dumb as always. Our own directors will totally ignore the good movies Bollywood came up with and uphold Avatar as the best movie of the year. I loved Avatar, but please, you deal with the Indian film industry. When asked, kindly mention the names of the good movies made in India. And while the Americans are learning to say Avatar, we Indians will call in Avaatar (all anglicized accent)!! Irritating!!
And then literature. Shouting it out one last time, for the love of God, Chetan Bhagat is the NOT beginning and end of indian literature. Heard of Amitav Ghosh's Sea of Poppies? Kiran Desai's Inheritance of Loss? They might get nominated and even win the Booker prize, the whole world will acknowledge the creativity and literary superiority of India, but we will be woefully unaware, since we have buried our noses in some Dan Brown or Sidney Sheldon.
About clothes, yeah Levi's or Adidas has a rep of its own which is hard to compete. But look at the majority of the 'firangi' around you. They wear tantra tees and chor bazari kurtas.
The funny thing I'm trying to highlight is that we are trying to ape a culture which is trying to follow us. While the Americans look up to us for Spiritualism and happiness of the inner soul, we chuck it all to become the 'material girl'... The biggest superpower in the world thinks India is cool, (upto a certain level at least) but we give it all up to ape the west.
What needs to be hammered into our brains is that we have a distinct identity of our own, which is very VERY rare. We don't need to throw it all to shake our heads to the beats of a song whose words we cant even figure out unless we catch hold of a lyrics search engine!!!!

12The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:19 pm

kyo

kyo
Active Member
Active Member

There are plenty of Indian authors out there worth mention... and I for one think Mr. Bhagat is overrated... I guess its simply my nature to avoid the crowds...

Americans aping Indian culture? They like to ape every culture... because they destroyed their own... they managed to practically exterminate the Native American population without violating a single moral principle (according to their version of those events).... I have been in homes of American families sporting rugs and hangings which are clearly from India.... others which try to ape Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Middle Eastern etc cultures.... in most department stores you will see goods with such 'themes' retailing for obscene amounts.... they are just trying to fill a vacuum...

The weird thing is... most Americans do not have as good a grasp of the English language as one would expect... I dunno if its just my vocabulary that is above average... but there have been innumerable occasions where I have had to convince them that certain words are 'correct'... certain ones are not... also the meanings and spellings of many words.... of course there are many problems also caused by the fact that Americans like to spell some words in different ways...

e.g. Gaily (British English) = Gayly (American English) <-- One guy argued with me about this word for a full hour before he decided to look it up...(I refused to do it since I KNEW I was right) and discovered that we were both right... except that it is only Americans who use 'gayly.' Lolz... spell checker is complaining about the spelling even as I type the post...

13The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:35 pm

Aceviper

Aceviper
Administrator
Administrator

@ Ankita - I had one guy ask me: "Wanna go watch A-waiter?"

imagine that!

14The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:44 pm

Ankita


Uprising Member
Uprising Member

@Ace How did you even understand which movie was he talking about???

15The Un-Indians Empty Re: The Un-Indians Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:16 pm

Aceviper

Aceviper
Administrator
Administrator

Ankita wrote:@Ace How did you even understand which movie was he talking about???

It took me a while before I realised what he was saying - I even asked if it was some new hindi movie about some restaurant. Then I asked him to spell the name of the movie. Razz

He seemed quite embarrassed. I cant believe so many people couldn't pronounce it right - just because its made outside the country doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't need to be pronounced in an Indian way. I mean, has everyone forgotten about Vishnu's avatars? That should at least be enough to remind them how to pronounce the word right. Next we'll be having people call the old Gandhi movie as "Gane-di".

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