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serious debate guys. last week our professor was explaining some stuff about the caste system and the domination of higher class when we he cited this Einstein's quote
"God is human weakness."
that really makes sense to me. it didn't exactly turn me into an atheist immediately but somehow i trod, for some time, on the road of agnosticism. earlier, i must confess, i was a believer not because of faith, but because of sense. coz if there's someone who can kick your ass and that too hard, its Him/Her. so why not be on the safer side? what's the harm anyway? that was what my perspective was.
what do you guys think?

Jin wrote:Finding god is simillar to finding the value of 1/0

Or, it's similar to finding Bertrand Russell's hypothetical teapot which is supposed to orbit the sun

ah well thats easier to interpret!

Finding God has nothin to do with believing in Him... n if you really wanna find God, stop posting on Amalga and go meditate in the Himalayas!!!

Ankita wrote: n if you really wanna find God, stop posting on Amalga and go meditate in the Himalayas!!!

aint that stupid

People don't take the Himalayas thing negatively. What I implied by it was the divine is attained in solitary. So Jin, I don't think it's stupid in any way.
@Red- Agree with the concept of meditation of yoga and meditation. And i am a big believer in the "way" you suggested for Omkar- Sacred union (though Omkar won't believe it, courtesy today's arguement about sex and divinity).
But I still take my stand for a living God... my God lives in each one of us (of course, barring some exceptions )... So I find him all around me. Easier than finding the value of 1/0...

Ankita wrote:And i am a big believer in the "way" you suggested for Omkar- Sacred union (though Omkar won't believe it, courtesy today's arguement about sex and divinity).

Ladies and gentlemen, brace up. Coz Ankita has opened a fresh new relevant topic here- Sex: Divine or not.

This is directly related. Ankita, I will cite many of your points here coz what you have said is echoed by many of my friends I happened to have similar discussions with.

The most common reason cited by the believers is that God can be found everywhere around you. They will say look at the flowers- where does the fragrance come in them? Look at Himalayas- who can make such a colossal masterpiece? Look at the Niagara, the Sahara, the intricate vegetation n animal life in them. Then look at yourself. How were you born- the ultimate of the miracles(They are not pulling my leg )- Reproduction- the ultimate of miracles. Look at the earth, the nightly sky, the astronomical bodies, the universe. Who could've made such stuff? Hell, who could've even thought of such stuff? Its God my dear friend. He is 'the one', while you are just da-one(yeah, my friends can be pretty lame at times).

Their point- God is the symbol of perfection, of miracles that cannot be gauged.

My point- why can't miracles be exclusive? Why do they have to have a source? Why do you have to gather them and give a collective name- God. Coz you know what, that just makes things difficult. You are afraid of displeasing the divine. And God's ways are argumentative. Some say God can be pleased by all your worshiping rituals, some lay emphasis on righteousness, some say sex(bless those who say it, by the way)...in the end we end up doing things sometimes we might not wanna do, and even at the end of it, we are not sure whether it will benefit us for sure.

Now look at the life of an atheist- you know what you will observe at first? Self-confidence. Self-belief. It might subsequently degenerate into vanity but that's a different issue. At least he won't be blaming any bloke sitting in the skies. He will write his book of life not with Camel ink made on earth and not with some Amrit voodoo. He will find more miracles which co-exist independently. He can appreciate much more because he can look at this for their individual awe-inspiring exquisiteness rather than tying a common thread round them.

Now coming to the sex part, the same argument was presented. Sex is the ultimate pleasure. What other activity can give you such an immense satisfaction physically and emotionally? Its so incredibly good, its sacred. Then the ritual of Hieros Gamos was cited which further stresses on sex being Godly.

Firstly, sex is not always about emotions. Secondly, granted that sex is pleasure but the ultimate- nah. Thirdly, why should we brand it the G tag just coz its good? Or for that matter, anything or anyone? Like we often call people, say for instance A R Rahman, a God(there's a fan club in orkut by the same name with 1,00,000+ followers).

Contradiction- A R Rahman is human. Humans are never perfect.
So God is not perfect.

You might say its a lame illustration to argue God's perfection. Take this- the Himalayas, the universe are all not perfect. Its just that they are so humongous-ly incomprehensible, we give up and with our hands down and bowed necks, call it Godly. Another explanation- we call such stuff perfect(quote: If there would have been even a slight change in the Big Bang and subsequent evolution, life wouldn't have existed) because there isn't anything like it. Is there another universe? Nope. You can't find cons when there aren't a separate set of pros to weigh against.

The world around us is full of miracles, some of which have been scientifically explained, some are still a riddle. The point lies in looking around you than looking up because looking up, you cann see just changing colors-one shade at a time, depending on the time, while around you you see hundreds and not just shades, but substance too- some human, some natural. We are a part of prodigy and many-a-time we are the prodigy.

Accept it.

Red wrote:
There are people who believe in a so called God just because they were born into a God-fearing family/society. They believe not because they realize or even actually believe that a higher and far more superior being exists, but because they were "taught" to do so from a very young age. This is not to say that a religious foundation from a very young age is WRONG, but when one is of age, one must ask himself whether he/she truly believes and wishes to follow the customs he/she has been following as of yet.

Too True.
A lot of people only follow their beliefs because thats what they

And then there is the less known "way" which says that carnal... pleasure is a way of finding God. (Omkar, this one's for you, I guess )

I knew that you won't let go of the chance to debate on this one... Discussing on Amalga.. Very smart Omi. Trying it somewhere you knew i would definitely reply. Smart. Fine then, I'll take the bait.
Firstly whatever you say is in a very limited scheme of things. I said it earlier that just because you don't know the pros and cons doesn't mean they don't exist. I would take your word for it, if you can assure me that you have seen the entire universe. If I deem the creation and evolution as perfect, you cannot challenge it for the simple fact that you cannot compare it with anything. Perfection is a comparative concept. Had you seen another such creation and said that, I would have accepted your view. So what I'm saying is unless you find another parameter, you can't prove what I believe as perfect to be imperfect. But at the same time, just because you don't know of such a parameter doesn't mean it doesn't exist!!
Now about sex being divine. Well I see you have said its a pleasure but not the ultimate. Then tell me something else that happens to be the ultimate pleasure in your dictionary. Next, we are all fakes upto a certain extent. We dress, act or do things that will give us a better position in the society or among our peers. But its only when we are into sex that we drop our pretense. Its the only time when we rely on our basic instincts, let go of our naked emotions. Its the only time we don't see ourselves in some fancy, glorifying light. The only time except when we pray. So if while having sex we see ourselves the way we truly are, or the way the Higher Being has created us, doesn't that bring us closer to God?
Sex is powerful beyond our understanding. Those who worshipped in the
temples of the past knew the power of a direct connection with the
divine, and they understood how sexuality could make that connection.
They saw the creation of life result from this activity, and saw
divinity in it. Those who served in the temples learned to use it. They
could build their erotic energy up to the edge of climax, then direct
it toward a creative outcome other than procreation, such as sex magic
or erotic healing. They also taught others how to make love with
caring, respect and pleasure.
And moreover, sex begets new life. That is truly a miracle. The union of man and woman creates a mind, body, heart and soul. A whole new human life. Isn't that divine?
PS: Omi, don't get the religion and science debate into this one...

And yes, that Rahman example is so so lame... don't ever cite anything like that ever again. Its below your standards!!

I must say, I don't have any issues with religion. I only have issues with religious nutjobs.
Like THIS GUY
That guy just straight pisses me off.


Wolfy checked in a few posts back and posted something about Russels Teapot.

Russell's original text

In an article entitled "Is There a God?",[1] commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:
If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.[2]

Your thoughts?

Religious nutjob? It seems more like he was saying just how silly something like "God" is. Because, after all, "you can't disprove God" is every theist's favourite argument whenever someone asks if there is even a shred of proof for Him. God is the teapot.

Also, laughing at how much people associate a bit of good luck to God.

EDIT: Welp, didn't see the link. Still doesn't seem like a religious nutjob really. He's just having some fun trolling.

When Arrow said "that guy" I think he meant the site in the link...

Does god exist or not? No one can tell for sure can they... neither atheists... not theists... it is an unresolved question... I believe in god... but no so much in religion... read my views on this subject a few pages earlier...

This may not be so much of an answer, but I read somewhere before about when Abdul Kalam was a student.
Apparently he had this professer who was an atheist, who picked on him since Kalam was a believer. So he asked him if he could see god, hear god, feel god or smell his god. He ridiculed his beliefs and asked him how he could believe in something he had absolutely no idea about and said that god didnt exist.
Kalam asked him if he could see his brain, feel it, hear it or smell it, and concluded that if he had no god then the professer had no brain.
People have proved the existance of a brain and some people have proved that god exists. To them it holds true.
This is probably one of the most controversial topics ever and has no ending. People who have their faith, and are happy with it will continue to be happy. People who don't have faith and are still happy, will be the same.
Maybe there is a god and maybe there isn't but if this god can help you do whatever you want to by like encouraging you, it's great but depending on god and praying to him/her to solve your problems is kinda going over the top...nahi?
I mean, You make the mistake so you sort it out (or a friend or someone else but, you get my point..i hope)..=)

Well, God is some-one on which you can blame for every-thing.

I am god. You are god. everyone is god.

end of story.

Red wrote:So, you blame Him when something goes wrong? And that's that?
So... doesn't that make you kinda atheist-like or something?

Its not that, I read it some-where.
Mmm!

I do don't believe in god, But its strange.
When-ever anything goes wrong, people blame it on god.
I hate that fact, Lol!

There's this farmer who was atheist, He worked hard but his harvest never came on the similar basis.
Soon his family started to starve, All he did was blame it on god!
But some-thing happened, And his work started giving returns.
He became rich, And had a luxurious life.
"He thanked god"

It wasn't all that, After a while his wife went sick.
There was no cure, Even his rich couldn't save her.
"Why God? Why?" He said.

Soon after, His son asked for a partition of property.
He became sick, tired, insane and top of all wanted to die!
The only thing he hoped for was Hell! Where there won't be a God!

[Glued to the screen for a whole half an hour...reading all the comments and posts.... *eyes strain *...]

For me, thinking of ‘God’, the only thing that strikes my mind [for now at least] is the Iron Maiden song, Hallowed Be Thy Name.
“Someone calls from a cell ‘God be with you’
If there's a God then why has he let me die?”


Till now, my belief in God [and every other damn things associated with IT] seemed unbelievably true. But then, when I try to think in a more rational manner (trying to forget the fact that I’m from a God-fearing family), I realize that God is something (or someone) we cling on to when we are sad, depressed, broken etc. ‘GOD’ gives that virtual and mental satisfaction that everything is going to be okay, that GOD will make it all right –that every story will have an ending like ‘The Alchemist’.
But that doesn’t happen all the time.

God is like a good anime with a good ending. It makes us dream of a life that doesn’t really exist.
So, apparently, GOD misleads us (many of us) to believe that the future will bear fruits and all our sorrows will come to an end. But then, I’m not being a pessimist, I’m just trying to say what I believe is true.
It’s best to just move on in life and blame every consequence we must face, not to our stars or God, but to ourselves. If something great happens, it’s because of us and if something bad happens, it’s because of us as well.

Xhizors wrote:God is all powerful, all knowing and all loving.

But if you don't believe in him, he'll send you to a special place where you'll burn forever.

I think you just quoted from the Hymnal, eh?
but...burn forever??? Isn't that Satan's job??? (though, its hard to find a difference between them)
[btw, I suddenly remember grilled chicken....er......... ]

Yes...so loving and caring. I really dont care, if its god, I'd have no choice but to accept whatever she bestows on me..


And three stars for this!!!

The only thing worse than God is religion.

Period.