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The American Myth

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1The American Myth Empty The American Myth Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:39 pm

kyo

kyo
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You often hear about all these promising young Indian graduates who are all infatuated with the US of A. They all wanna come here for higher education and eventually jobs and eventually citizenship.... or something close to it... they are lured by promises of a good life... and riches... a 'professional' work environment... freedom.... all the good things...

It all looks great in the brochures and even better in the movies... but really.... life here can be a real struggle... if youre lucky you will get a job that pays you a decent amount... and if youre a young graduate... youre single... you dont have to worry about saving much.... and if youre really lucky... you have no loans...

This is that part of life where the brochure still looks good... then lets say you get yourself a house, a brand new car, and (later down the road) you get a wife... you have kids, vacations... the works... your brochure is actually looking great now... then... one day you get yourself a pink slip in the mail... but... no worries... the brochure still looks good... then... you cant find a job... your monthly payments on the house and car are wearing down your savings... this is the part where the gloss is starting to wear off the shiny pictures...

Then... you find out youre broke... your payments and the late penalties on those payments are stacking up... in other words... youre f****d... you are working a part time job doing something you wouldnt even have imagined before... e.g. burger flipping.... at this point you have tossed the brochure out the window...

Now I am not saying that this will happen... but it can happen and it is happening to more and more people now... my uncle who runs a restaurant in the New York area tells me that he has young Indians with Masters Degrees... with families... applying for positions as lowly as delivery boys...

But this is not really what I want to say.... the point is that here I am making the assumption that you will lose your job... but even if that does not happen... heres a few interesting facts I recently discovered....

Do you know that when working for some US companies... you might have a secret life insurance policy taken out on your life where the beneficiary is the company?? Whats more.... your family (assuming you die) will not get a dime of that money. That you can be fired with as little as a couple days notice?? That you are probably being paid the exact same numerical salary that another worker doing the same job was being paid 10 years ago? Whats more.... you are probably getting fewer benefits than him...

Do you know that pretty much all the banks here try to entice you with tricky loans that (once you take them)... its unlikely that you will ever be able to repay (BEWARE THE ADJUSTABLE RATE!!!)?? That if you ever get in an accident/develop a serious health condition of any sort and (god forbid) you do not have health insurance.... you will pretty much become broke/in debt overnight??

But this is all 'personal' stuff... heres the kicker...

America... land of the free... the richest most powerful country in the world... supposedly the worlds 'fairest' system of government... isnt that right? I bet thats what you heard anyway....

Lets see... definitely the richest... and most definitely the most powerful.... but lets see here...

Land of the free? Yeah... sure... why not? Ever hear of the Patriot Act?? The 'Rendition' protocols? Prisoner torture in Iraq/Gitmo/other secret prisons?

Lets look at 'richest.' Sure.... undisputed... but do you know that the a mere 1% of the wealthiest Americans control more personal wealth than the bottom 95%?? Yeah... so what about a middle class? Theyre not there!! You may argue that the top 1% are so damn rich that the bottom 95% are still 'well-off'... So then why was there such a crisis with the mortgages... why were there so many foreclosures??

I will not dispute 'powerful'... theres no doubt about that... but you have to ask... why does a nation so powerful still spend more money than pretty much the rest of the world combined on developing new weapons?

The worlds fairest system of government... you would think that there is less corruption here right? That the government is actually FOR the PEOPLE? Here my friend is where you are completely screwed...

Do you know that for the past 5 decades... the American government has become merely an extension of Wall Street? That practically every senator has been taking kickbacks from the various corporations in order to further their agendas? The banks... the insurance companies... the auto companies they controlled this countries legislation to a point where its freaky... smashed the unions... got rid of regulations... conveniently overlooked certain... err... 'irregularities'.... heck... they basically made it illegal or just plain impossible for the PEOPLE to argue with them (the Companies)... But not only that... even on lower levels of government... there is much corruption...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges/

Case in point... the 'Bailout' which was passed through Senate so quickly just at the end of the Bush Administration... very convenient timing... and convenient setting... most of the 'advisors' on the 'committee' were ex employees of Goldman Sachs.... then there was the hoo hah about getting it passed IMMEDIATELY before anyone actually had a chance to review what was in the darn bill... yeah... when the 1st attempt failed... there was a media blitz about why it should have been passed and how the SELFISH actions of a 'few' senators and the people was actually going to ruin the country... of course the 2nd attempt worked...

Oh? So you lost all the PEOPLES money on a foolish gamble?? No problem.... heres a key to the Treasury... take as much as you would like (again... the PEOPLES money)!! Isn't CAPITALISM grand?? I thought it was sink or swim... survival of the fittest... stuff like that.... Darwinism and whatnot.... turns out... that if you're a big enough dinosaur... it doesn't matter if that meteorite hits you dead on!!

The 'Free-market' had spoken... AIG, Goldman Sachs, Merril Lynch, Citigroup... these guys had to go under... but... they wormed their way out of trouble again... oh... and even if they had gone under... the CEOs and the other bigwigs would still be able to retire quite comfortably and buy their own private countries (I exaggerate... but you get my point) while they were about it... Heck heres a nice illustration about what these bigwigs think of us... the PEOPLE....

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6694962

I actually have the memo as pdf in case anyones interested...

So you tell me fellas... whats your take? Is the American myth just that...a myth? Or am I wrong? I would actually like to be wrong this one time...

2The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:03 pm

Omkar

Omkar
Active Member
Active Member

Clap Great topic.
kyo wrote: my uncle who runs a restaurant in the New York area tells me that he has young Indians with Masters Degrees... with families... applying for positions as lowly as delivery boys...
I have a question- when you say 'now', do you mean now, as in currently? Its still going? Isn't America bailed out as they say? Or is it that the media here has lost interest in American economy in shambles?
kyo wrote: Do you know that when working for some US companies... you might have a secret life insurance policy taken out on your life where the beneficiary is the company?? Whats more.... your family (assuming you die) will not get a dime of that money. That you can be fired with as little as a couple days notice?? That you are probably being paid the exact same numerical salary that another worker doing the same job was being paid 10 years ago? Whats more.... you are probably getting fewer benefits than him...
Man, that's so f***ed up.
kyo wrote: Do you know that pretty much all the banks here try to entice you with tricky loans that (once you take them)... its unlikely that you will ever be able to repay (BEWARE THE ADJUSTABLE RATE!!!)?? That if you ever get in an accident/develop a serious health condition of any sort and (god forbid) you do not have health insurance.... you will pretty much become broke/in debt overnight??
Hey, I kinda remember someone telling me banks in America take money from people to keep their money safe instead of giving interests. True?
kyo wrote: Land of the free? Yeah... sure... why not? Ever hear of the Patriot Act?? The 'Rendition' protocols?
I know about the patriot act but what's rendition protocols? Wiki doesn't seem to have heard of it.
kyo wrote: Lets look at 'richest.' Sure.... undisputed... but do you know that the a mere 1% of the wealthiest Americans control more personal wealth than the bottom 95%?? Yeah... so what about a middle class? Theyre not there!! You may argue that the top 1% are so damn rich that the bottom 95% are still 'well-off'... So then why was there such a crisis with the mortgages... why were there so many foreclosures??
*sigh* That's everywhere man.
kyo wrote: I will not dispute 'powerful'... theres no doubt about that... but you have to ask... why does a nation so powerful still spend more money than pretty much the rest of the world combined on developing new weapons?
How else do you define power then? They have such obscene defense budgets and that's how to are feared, in other words, powerful.
'Jailing kids for cash' scandal? Wtf?? But the whole article doesn't mention why money was given to put children in prison.
Tried reading but I'm sorry, I really suck at economics and commerce shit. Can you just give me a gist of what the article is about? I actually have the memo as pdf in case anyones interested...
kyo wrote: So you tell me fellas... whats your take? Is the American myth just that...a myth? Or am I wrong? I would actually like to be wrong this one time...
Well, being not much informed about the shit happening on your side, I don't think I can comment coz that would be a product of a half baked mind. But y'know, I had always hated people''s obsession with America and the West, that it is so rich n all. What about the ghettos then guys? They have poverty too, they just don't talk about it. Its a minefield out there with their capitalist economy- you can see that now. Granted that it has promises of nice lifestyle n all but then if you work hard, a nice lifestyle is promised almost everywhere. The glamorized over-hyped bull... P.S. Your article makes me curious. Are you an ABCD or an NRI?

http://creativelyfertile.blogspot.com/

3The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:48 am

kyo

kyo
Active Member
Active Member

Well it was a while ago when my uncle tole me about those applicants. But in any case I know plenty of people who graduated with me who havent found jobs (Americans and Indians alike) also I know of many Indian families who have simply packed up and returned to India cause the breadwinner got fired and they couldnt afford to live here anymore.

Banks give very minimal interests on most accounts and the one which you heard about is probably the 'checking account' where they basically take your money and say.... yeah... we are keeping it safe for ya... . The ones where they do give decent rates require large deposits. Here is where we have another catch. The US Govt ensures that even if a bank goes bankrupt, the bank must still reimburse upto 10000$ per account of every client but if that client had a balance of >10000$ they dont need to pay that. So lets say I have an account with a balance of 20000$ and the bank goes bust.... they only need to pay me 10000$. Awesome isnt it?

Rendition protocol.... lets see... suppose you somehow manage to get on the CIA or NSA's radar as a 'possible terror suspect' they can (apparently this is legal) grab you from anywhere on the planet and toss you in a prison in any country they like and do exactly what they want to you.

No. India is not like that (thankfully) because people in India have learned to save their money.... this is stuff which our parents and grandparents taught us... problem is... with growing 'westernization' we also have growing 'consumerism' which is encouraging the younger population to spend all their money and not save. We still have a larger middle class than the entire US population, but that might go away in the near future. We should actually be thankful for the 'protectionist' policies which our Govt had in place for such a long time....

Get this. The USA has more destructive power in terms of weapons in a single carrier group than most of the rest of the world combined. I can understand that they want to maintain an edge, but why go to such length to develop NEWER weapons? But this is just a personal observation... shouldnt matter to others....

Will say the rest in the next post.

4The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:15 am

kyo

kyo
Active Member
Active Member

Kids for cash... now this was a great scheme.... There was this dude who had the bright idea of opening up one of these 'Juvenile Centers.' Juvenile centers are basically places where you send teenagers to be 'reformed' if they commit crimes and fairly serious crimes at that. Now these places are generally government owned/operated.... but this dude basically paid off the judges to dismantle the existing Govt facility, and give him a contract to 'take care' of the Juvenile offenders with his FOR PROFIT Juvenile center. Not only that... in order to make more money... he basically told them... you fill up my cells and I will give you a cut... Kids were sent to his 'facility' after being summarily sentenced by these judges (they never even got a lawyer or a chance to state their case).... and not only that... once they were there they were incarcerated for much longer periods than their original sentencing.... apparently... the people working at the center were the ones who were allowed to decide when the kid goes home... yeah... really awesome scheme.... until people started asking questions....

As for that Citibank memo... it made me physically sick.... I was not able to believe my eyes when I read what was written in there... to rant about that memo I would have to have a separate topic... or an extra hour... But in summary... this is what they had to say...

The world is divided into two kinds of people the 'haves' and the 'have-nots'... the 'haves' are the ones who (obviously) control much of what goes on... only problem is... the 'have-nots' have much greater voting power and they might simply get pissed off and decide to revolt and simply take away the goods/money from the 'haves'... the use of popular media to brainwash these 'have-nots' and let them think that they might someday become one of the 'haves' if they work hard enough is one strategy which has worked for much longer than we (the 'haves') expected... and by influencing Government legislation and using other strategies to control the labor force / 'have-nots'... the 'haves' should be able to prolong their dominance over the 'have-nots' indefinitely...

Neither an ABCD nor an NRI... I am just an 'I' (for now anyway)...

BTW heres something else I heard about which actually scared me...

Do you know what many airline pilots in America make less money than a manager at a small burger/fast-food joint? Yup.... the dude who has you up in the air at 30000ft is most likely making less money, working more hours at a more stressful job than the guy who makes sure that your food passes as edible and the portions are as small as possible... Apparently... the aircraft that went down in Buffalo NY earlier this year was because the pilot was frigging tired... the cockpit voice recorders had recorded him and his copilot talking about how little they were paid and how much they had to work shortly before the plane went down.... I mean... call me crazy... but when I am travelling by air, I would like to be able to think that the guy who is flying the damn aircraft is well paid or at least well rested...

5The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:29 pm

Omkar

Omkar
Active Member
Active Member

kyo wrote: ...FOR PROFIT Juvenile center...
...(they never even got a lawyer or a chance to state their case)...

So these kids were made to work or something? But don't think convicts get wages for that? How was the profit made then?
And the article states most of the parents voluntarily denied an attorney thinking that mostly they would get a rap on their knuckles(or more, depending on severity of crime but not this far) and some warning. It didn't say they didn't get a lawyer, did it?


kyo wrote: Do you know what many airline pilots in America make less money than a manager at a small burger/fast-food joint? Yup.... the dude who has you up in the air at 30000ft is most likely making less money, working more hours at a more stressful job than the guy who makes sure that your food passes as edible and the portions are as small as possible

Neutral Man, that's not restricted to America. The inhuman working hours are everywhere. I remember reading recently that the pilots of Air India had a salary of mere Rs. 8000 now. No wonder the article I was reading said "Air India workers refuse to budge from their agitation."

http://creativelyfertile.blogspot.com/

6The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:07 pm

kyo

kyo
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Active Member

Yeah some of them declined having an attorney present... so I guess thats one point that one should not be worried about... but how about the fact that their sentences were extended without warning? They were not even put before the judge...

How they made profit? Well the dude running the center charges the Govt for each inmate he has... so... more inmates = more money... therefore those judges were told... keep em coming!!

I love flying... heck its why I am an aerospace engineer... so the pilot thing is something I really dislike... but one of my friends who is a pilot for JetAirways says that he is fairly well paid... is it just a problem with Air India then?

7The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:31 pm

DIE HARD

DIE HARD
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Not necessarily:
http://www.indianairlinesblog.com/2009/09/jet-airways-suffers-by-labour-problems-as-pilots-embark-on-mass-casual-and-sick-leaves/

Btw,I lately saw a news about Air India stuffing passengers in the flight cockpit to accommodate more passengers.
Oh,here's an interesting story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8289313.stm

@kyo: very interesting article there. I knew things were not as good as we were led to believe but didn't think is was THIS bad!

http://insaneanime.ning.com/

8The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:56 pm

Aceviper

Aceviper
Administrator
Administrator


Man that's bad. Notice the last two paragraphs -->




DIE HARD wrote:Oh,here's an interesting story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8289313.stm

THAT is debatable.

The fact that there was a fight among the crew is unacceptable. The fact that there is an accusation of molestation however....can be a false scenario. Many females have been taking advantage of the law. For all you know, it could be a hoax to get money. And proof will be limited in this case. I wonder what the outcome will be.

9The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:36 am

kyo

kyo
Active Member
Active Member

The CVR's (Cockpit Voice Recorder's) could come in handy if the fight took place in the cockpit... but yeah... every law has the potential to be bent and used to ones own advantage.... and women have been taking advantage of that fact... I am not saying that it is always the case, but I feel that if the court discovers that the female was lying.... she should be subject to a punishment equivalent to the one she was demanding for the male... people should realize the consequences of their actions...

10The American Myth Empty Re: The American Myth Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:24 pm

DIE HARD

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http://insaneanime.ning.com/

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